INTERVIEW WITH VICTOR GRIFFIN (PLACE OF SKULLS)
Sojo, 16/10/2004
We nearly didn’t get the chance to see Place of Skulls, as drummer Tim Tomaselli’s last minute-departure from the band almost prevented the band from touring Europe (or a part of it) for the first time. As one of the pioneers of doom metal and member of seminal cult bands Death Row and Pentagram, Victor Griffin’s contribution to hard rock’s vocabulary can only be underestimated, yet Place of Skulls remains - like his previous bands and like Wino’s The Hidden Hand, for instance – a cult enterprise. The audiences may not be huge, but they’re supportive and loyal and based on the performance the band delivered, it’s easy to understand why. Before the gig (the last one of the tour), I had a chat with axe-man Victor (V), imposing bass player Dennis Cornelius (D) and interim-drummer Pete Campbell (P):
As far as I know, this is gonna be the last show for a while. How has it been?
V: It’s been good, we’ve had good turnouts, it’s been an interesting route, but most of the shows have been good.
Where did you play? Only in Germany?
V: Mostly in Germany
D: Also one in Bern, Switzerland and one in Holland last night.
All with Alix?
V: Yeah
What do you think of ‘em?
V: Great…
I thought it was quite funny, because we had the Hidden Hand here three months ago and there was quite a difference between the two styles and now they’re also supporting this band, so…
V: Well, I prefer it that way, I prefer a mixed bill, rather than having two bands that sound the same or have similar styles. The mix makes it interesting and they’re a great band.
Is touring something that you prefer over recording?
V: It depends on how the tours go, you know. I like the idea of touring, but it seems like there’s a lot of… You know, things happen and they can get rough, it all depends on the conditions. I think Europe’s way better than the United States for touring…
In what way?
V: The hospitality, the accommodation. Pretty much in the US when you go on tour, unless you have a big budget, you’re basically on your own, as far as everything goes. All the details…
When American bands play here, they often tell us that many bands that go on tour… they, like, have to pay to get food or drinks and stuff…
D: Yeah, that’s true.
V: Yeah, a lot of places you go, you show up at the venue and you don’t even get, like, free beer. You have to buy the beer from the bar. Maybe not full-price, but regardless of what the price is, it’s the principle, because you’re coming to be the entertainment for their venue and then you have to pay for food and drinks, so…
Something else: have you ever toured with Wino? He was on the second album…
V: No we’ve never actually toured together.
D: But you did the Caravan of Skulls-tour!
V: Oh, right! Oh you mean like in the same band?
Yeah.
V: No, not in the same band, but our two bands have toured together, yes. Place of Skulls and Spirit Caravan, that was what? 2002?
Pete, you’ve only joined the band four or five weeks ago?
P: Last week! (laughs)
I read about it on Stonerrock.com - that the previous drummer suddenly left the band. Did he leave or was there another reason?
V: To not go into an excruciatingly long and painful story… He had some personal issues… He’d been playing music for a long time, felt a bit tired and burnt-out and wanted to address some personal issues, that kind of thing. But the timing was really bad. We had this tour, we also had studio time booked for our new CD, which we had to put on hold until later. So, like a month before this tour started, he quit.
Very bad timing then…
V: Very bad timing and we were actually gonna cancel the tour, but you know, we thought it would be best to try to go through with it. Luckily, we got hold of Pete, or he got in touch with us…
Did you have a lot of candidates?
V: Yeah, quite a few. A lot of people interested in temporary positions, as far as just doing a tour and recording a CD. It depends on how it works and it depends on the person… You know, we like to have regular rehearsals just to keep the band functioning, but Pete came down, like four days before the tour started and we rehearsed six times and came to do it, man.
Is it the intention that he’s staying as a full member?
V: It’s definitely something worth considering, but we have to wait until we get back home… about the logistics of the whole thing and see how we can make it work.
Are you still playing in other bands?
P: Yeah.
Is Sixty Watt still around?
P: It will be in about a matter of months. We’re taking our time and see what happens.
Ok. A lot has been written about your status as a doom metal-pioneer. Do you consider yourself… do you feel a certain obligation as a kind of spokesperson maybe, or are there things you feel you need to do just to live up…
V: Nah, there’s nothing that I feel I have to do to live up to… you know, if that’s what people consider me. I do feel that I was there, like, at the beginning, other than somebody like Sabbath, but as far as the whole genre, the coming of age, like with Death Row, St. Vitus, Pentagram, bands like that…. I feel like I was there from the beginning, but at this point… I’m only trying to grow musically, I don’t wanna be stuck in a genre, because that’s what other people feel I should be doin’. But you know, it’s kind of an honour to be considered that…
A lot has also been written about your philosophy or religious beliefs. As far as I know, you weren’t that much into those themes before Place of Skulls…
V: I wouldn’t say that, because if you go back and listen to the Pentagram-stuff, even though it was on “the dark side” of religion… Religion is religion, whether it’s… whether you’re into Satanism or Christianity or Buddhism, or whatever it may be. It’s all religion, so there were definitely religious overtones, but they were more about the other side, so to speak.
Do you think the focus on religion might be a compensation for an earlier “rock ‘n’ roll”-lifestyle, so to speak? Wino was telling me about previous drug problems, alcoholism and stuff and it sometimes sounded as if… he’s more into politics and it sounded a bit as if he was making up for the excess of the past and following a new direction…
V: I don’t really try to make up for anything, if that’s what you’re gettin’ at. I just see things differently now. I think it was more or less an infatuation with the whole Satanic imagery. I had Levey’s Satanic Bible to read and “Wow, I can understand this and apply it to my life” and our image as far as… it started in the Death Row-era and went over into the Pentagram-era, with the image of the make-up and upside down crosses and pentagrams and so forth, but I guess at some point, I just decided that, you know… what I was expecting from rock ‘n’ roll I wasn’t getting and Satan sure wasn’t helping me get it, so I moved away from that stuff. As far as what I believe now…
D: You always had that. You told me you’ve always had that sense of what you believed in, the religious… it was always there!
V: Yeah.
D: Even in some of the earlier Pentagram-lyrics you can see the writing, the biblical side of the writing in those early songs, whether or not the image was coinciding with the music. But it was there… check out a song like “Relentless” even, I mean, you can flip that right around and use it as an instrument for God, to deliver a good message. Of the original intention, I’m not sure… It was dark, but what I get out of it now, it’s because I’m seeing it from another side.
Has that ever been a problem? Maybe in the US? The idea that we get from many people in the US is that they… and I don’t wanna be harsh… They wanna see things in a certain way and it has to fit in a category and I can imagine that people – especially those who are into heavy rock music – react like “Wow, this isn’t cool”.
V: Yeah, definitely. We caught a lot of backlash in this band before it started. Not so much directly, but I’d hear things people would say to other people and they would tell me things and so forth. I understand, because people have such an image of “Christianity” – they’re reminded of TV-evangelists, like “We’re here to get your money” and that kind of thing, but it’s more about my own spiritual soul-searching, I’m not trying to push what I believe on anybody. I just write what I feel, the lyrics that go with my music. I just don’t have a knack for writing, straight up, you know, AC/DC-lyrics, rock ‘n’ roll-lyrics. I love to listen to it, you know, but for me personally to write it, it doesn’t mean anything. So, and I just like my lyrics to mean something to me. I think we’ve actually broken down quite a few barriers since the band started, certainly in the past year or two, you know, by proving to people we’re not here to shove this message down anybody’s throat.
So, it’s more like a personal thing and not that you’re also supporting organised religion or rituals, etc
V: No, no way. All religion is just like a set of rules and regulations and they’re pushed upon people and “If you don’t act this way or that way then you can’t be one of us”. These rituals that have been passed on from generation to generation and have nothing to do with what’s in your heart. Just like I’ve told these guys – I’m definitely not in a position to be shoving my personal beliefs in anybody’s face, because I have a hard enough time living up to them myself, you know. I definitely need to be more on track with what I feel in my heart than I appear to be sometimes. But it’s a hard life to live…
Do you guys share these beliefs?
P: It doesn’t bother me, because the music kicks ass. I couldn’t care less about what anybody says, as long as the music’s good. I don’t give a fuck, it’s all good to me.
I can imagine that some beliefs or messages would be different… if he was talking in a way that neo-conservatives do in the US…
V: Somebody like Pete would probably have much more of a problem if it was a straight-up, preachy kind of thing.
D: Which it is not.
P: No, I don’t see it that way at all. I would if it was like that.
D: Yeah, I don’t even hear it. Stuff like “The Fall”- straight-up lyrically, that’s right out of the Bible, but then you go to a show, see all these kids out there with black metal t-shirts and a total Satanic image and they’re singing the lyrics. That shit right there makes me feel like, you know… it’s not necessarily about… they’re open, at that point, to what we’re doing, because of the music. So, in that case I agree with Victor that we’ve broken down some barriers.
It never bothered me either when I heard Nailed for the first time. A rock band with a Christian message! There’s not really the message-thing though, it’s just some guy talking about his beliefs…
V: It’s how I feel about it. It’s not that I’m taking things and saying “this is THE truth and you have to accept it,” you know, or the standard Christian brimstone & fire kind of message. That’s not what it is.
Now, to talk about the music again… How do the Place of Skulls-songs start? Is it more of a jam-thing or do you sit down on a chair and…
D nodding vigorously.
Yes…
V: Up to this point, yes, because we haven’t recorded a new CD yet with the new line-up. Because now, I’m the only original member, so for the first two records – other than the songs that Wino wrote for With Vision – I pretty much wrote everything and just brought it to the table and said “This is the material, learn the stuff and do it that way.” But now, with the Dennis in the band, he’s also a songwriter, we’re doing things a bit different. He has his ideas so there are gonna be some different ways of going about it, you know. He had a tune he brought and we dissected it, took it apart and put it back together and turned it more or less into a Place of Skulls-song. I’d like the reach the point where it’ s more a band effort, rather than just me.
Dennis, is it true that you got into the band because your wife posted something in the website’s guestbook?
D: Exactly. She’s been following the band and got their newsletter and stuff and she’s always looking out for me and tries to push me into a direction that would fit me. And yeah, she posted on there as me (laughs) because I wouldn’t do it. I was like “No way this is gonna happen, so I’m not even gonna try” but she went ahead and did it anyway and here I am, you know. That’s cool to me, she might be regretting it now (laughs).
I presume you guys have regular day jobs…
P: Yeah, you either do it because you wanna do it or you get a nine-to-five job.
Do you quite jobs temporarily or do you always have to look out for new jobs?
D: This is my third job in a year, so… and I’ve luckily been able to them letting me stay this time, but I’m sure that by the time the next time comes around, I’ll have to look around for another job. It’s like that every time. It’s no big deal, though… (whispers) It’s rock ‘n’ roll!
Is there already some material for a third album?
D: It’s pretty much finished.
V: Yeah.
But the recordings aren’t done…
V: No, but we have the material, or about 2/3rds of the material. We need two or three more songs we need ideas for. We haven’t had an opportunity to work ‘em all out, because things have come up along the way, so we worked and then Tim quit, etc. Then it was concentrating on getting all the old material together to be ready to tour, so we haven’t had the chance to finish all the material. Hopefully, we’ll have it recorded by the end of November.
Is it gonna continue the direction of With Vision?
V: No, it’s actually going in a much bluesier direction. Still heavy, still the same heavy vibe like it has on With Vision, but with more of a blues feel to it.
Are you also trying to keep up with what’s happening in “the scene” right now?
V: What does that mean, the scene? (laughs)
I don’t know. A lot of bands play here, but it’s mostly the more reknown bands from the stoner or doom rock-scenes, like The Hidden Hand and Atomic Bitchwax, Orange Goblin, etc. Is there any scene at all for a band like you where you live?
P: Not really.
Are you guys close to the DC/Maryland area?
V: The band is basically located in Knoxville, Tennessee, so it’s kinda southern-based. Where we are specifically, there’s not much of a scene at all. We can play a local show once in a while, but a local scene is kind of non-existent.
Ok… Politics! Is there anything you wanna share about your current leader? He’s also a very religious person, but I can’t imagine that’s also your idea of a healthy religion…
V: Obviously, we’re in a position now and we got there under false pretenses. I don’t know how anybody in their right mind could support a president like that. He’s changed the story several times. No, I totally disagree with where we’re at right now, politically and especially in relationship with other countries and all. But I’m not really, uh…. Almost embarrassingly so, I haven’t caught up on a lot of political aspects, you know, I kinda just keep up with things I feel I need to know or should know. I don’t know a lot of details on certain issues…
It’s not that you’re sharing your political beliefs as well with the music…
V: Well, the new stuff has got some political comments in there. Actually, “The Monster” on With Vision, that’s a political song. It’s about the American Indian and the way that the white man came to America and claimed to have discovered the country while there was a whole race of people already there – and basically wiped ‘em out and took their land, which we now claim as our own. To me, that’s a political statement. I’m more into that kind of thing and not mainstream politics, which I’m actually quite bored with.
I can imagine that.
V: It’s also media hype, too. The way the American government keeps the people in a state of fear, for controlling purposes.
I also get the impression that they’ve been focusing on stuff that’s not very important, just to hide the fact that…
P: … they fucked up.
V: Yeah.
They say Kerry’s flip-flopping and throwing away medals…
V: It’s such a bad situation. I mean, look at the two people now, the people we have to choose from, for president. I don’t wanna choose either one of those guys, personally, but I definitely will not choose Bush.
OK, that’s it, then. Good luck with the show tonight and I hope it’ll live up to the expectations!
Thanks!
(It did!)
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